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Interview with Anton Wangler (AW)

Conducted by Ronald J. Vossler and Bob Dambach (BD)
2 June 1997, Stuttgart, Germany

Transcription and translation by Marvin L. Hartmann

Prairie Public Collection


BD Tell us in English you name and your title and your background.

AW My name is Anton Wangler. I am the Executive Director of the Landsmannshaft Der Deutschen Aus Russland, hier in Stuttgart . Wir haben zur Zeit ueber zwie millionen "Germans from Russia" hier im Bundesgebiet und unsere Landsmannshaft hat ueber hundertfuenfzig tausand Mitglieder wie sie hier im Bundesgebeit zuvertraeten hat. Also ich bin verheiratet, habe drei Kinder. Wir waren in Russland hundert achtzig jahrelang. Und ein Teil unser Verwandtschaft wohnt auch in Nord Dakota, in Strassburg und anderen Gebieten in Nord Dakota. Dass ist unsere zweite, und auch meine zweite Heimat.

BD Could you say that in English?

AW My name is Anton Wangler . I am the Executive Director of the Landsmannshaft Der Deutschen Aus Russland in Stuttgart. We have about two million Germans from Russia in Germany and about one hundred fifty thousand people in the Landsmannshaft. Nicht nur ...........gesamt Deutsche, Germans from Russia. (I am married and have three children. [Our people] were in Russia for 180 years. Part of our relationship also lives in North Dakota, in Strassburg and other areas in North Dakota. That is our second and my second home.)

BD OK, totals Germans from Russia, people from that background .

AW Our family was one hundred eighty years in Russia, in Ukraine, in Odessa region. In nineteen hundreds they was going to North Dakota and so I can say is for my family the second home. And I have in Germany a child Christina, my drittes Kind, und das ware hier schon gebored, d.h. wir waren drueben hundertachtzig jahrelang in der Ukraine. Ich bin auch geboren schon vor der Vertreibung und dann hier haben wir wieder nur angefangen. Dass heist mein drittes Kind heisst Christine und von Christ, Jesus Christ, wir sind Katholiken, und weil ich jetzt in Deutschland war habe ich gedacht jetzt kriegen wir noch ein drittes kind, eine Christine, ein hoffnung von Gott. Weil wir waren auch drueben im ah also trots des Communismus haben wir doch an Gott geglaubt , an die _________ und haben den Glaube mitgebracht auch im Hertzen. Und des wegen heisst mein drittes Kind Christine, als hoffnung zu der Zukunft.

(And I have in Germany a child Christina, my third child and she was born here [in Germany]. We were in Russia for 180 years in the Ukraine. I was born before the exile and then here we started all over again. My third child is named Christina after Christ, Jesus Christ. We are Catholic since I am now in Germany I realized we were to have another child, their third, one Christina, a sign of hope from God. While we were in Russia and in spite of Communism we did indeed believe in God and we brought that same faith with us in our hearts. Because of that we named our third child Christina as hope in God for the future.)

BD That's a very ......

AW I have a daughter Christine von Jesus Christos und it was a hope for our family, Jesus Christus, in Russia, Ukraine und our daughter has the name Christina because she was a Christian, in Russia, in Ukraine and auch the fight against Communismus and wir haben den Glauben auch nach Deutschland mitgebracht. Deswegen haben wir die dritten Tochter die Namen Christina gegeben. Es war aus meine _________erfahrung, jetzt sind unsere Familia...... Und ein Teil der Verwandtschafft wohnt in North Dakota, in Strassburg, Bismarck und die sind schon neuntzenhundert augewanderet also es sind damals... .. und Ich habt immer wieder meinen Grosseltern dann gesagt, "Die leute die noch Nord Dakota gegangen sind waren klueger als wir." Dass heisst, die sind die recht zeit gagangen und haben praktich die Communismus nicht erlebt was eigentlich diese menchen in der neu demokratie in Amerika viel besser war. But die mussten jah den zweiten Weltkrieg durch machen. Die folgen von der Stalin Diktatur, das haben wir allen _________meine Vorfaren, meine Grossfaeter und Eltern durchmachen mussen. Das ist diesen Menschen in Nord Dakota spar geblieben obvohl zur diese Leute war es auch schwierig, zum beispiel , dort ein Anfang zu machen Sie haben es geschafft aber die wurden nicht verfolgt. Dass war ja vorteil und zum unserem nachteil sind sie druebe geblieben und mussten die ganzen Tote _______Deportation, and anderes mehr mitmachen mussen. Es war schon sehr, sehr Schwehr.

( ....in Ukraine and also the fight against Communism and we brought our faith with us to Germany. For that reason we gave our third daughter the name Christina. It came from our experiences and now our family.... And a part of our relationship lives in North Dakota, in Strassburg, Bismarck . They had emigrated in the nineteen hundreds and I always told my grandparents, "The people who went to North Dakota were smarter than we were." That means they were not there and did not live under Communism and what they experienced in the new democracy in America was much better. Of course, they did live through WWII . What developed under the Stalinist dictatorship all of my ancestors, my grandparents and my parents had to endure. The people in North Dakota were spared all this even though , for example, it was difficult to begin living here. They made it but they were never persecuted . That is the way it was for us in the beginning but later, because they stayed here they had to endure death, deportation and other things. It was very, very difficult.)

Voice Could you tell about the Bundestreffen?

Voice And the...what its supposed to do, what it's purpose is, perhaps.

AW Eh..the twentyfifth Bundestreffen, die Landsmannschafft, was ______, it was demonstration for freedom for the hope of Germans from Russia in the Bundesrepublik, Deutschland. Eh, for acceptance in the German people, in Germany, for the youth of Germans from Russia and it was very good with 60,000 members of our folk, to demonstrate for our problems.

Voice See if we can get that quiet demonstration....

AW A quiet demonstration. It was a quiet demonstration.

Voice A quiet demonstration to the German political............

AW It was a quiet demonstration for the German political, for the political of Germans from Russian in the German Federal Republic. And it was a friedens demonstration, friede, (peace demonstration, peace)

Voice For the rights and privileges.

AW Auf dem friedens Weg.

Voice It was an orderly, orderly demonstration..

AW It was an ordently demonstration and for the... for our problems. Dass die Leute weiter kommen koennen. Da kann ja mann sagen , dass dass Tor nich zugemacht wird, das Tor bliebt offen. ( So that the people can experience progress. A person could say that the door should not be closed, so that it stays open.)

Voice To keep the door open for the aussiedlers (emigrants) to keep coming to Germany.

AW It was a fight a demonstration against, to keep eh, the door for the Germans from Russia and it was .....

Voice To keep the door open.

AW Door open

Voice To keep the door open for the Germans from Russia to come to Germany . It was demonstration to keep the door open.

AW It was a demonstration to keep the door open for Germans from Russia with problems to come to Germany.

Voice: What is the purpose of your organization?

AW Also, Ich bin hier praktish der Bundesgeschaetzfuerer und bin zustaendish fuer alles was die ________betrifft. Dass heisst Financiersachen, zu die Sozialeinglieterung, fuer quarterille Arbiet, wissenschafft Arbeit und so weiter, for allem die Probleme die Leute die nach Deutschland kommen. Die haben unheimlich viele Probleme und die Landsmannschafft ist nur __________eine Hengstorganazion und kaempft fuer die belange unsere Landsleute. Es kommen staendig Leute zu uns jeden Tag die Probleme haben , fallend die nicht anerkannt worden sind oder auch mit andern Problemen also praktis in der Famielie oder sonst was, da zu uns kommen und dann helfen wir auch den Leuten. Wir haben zum Beispiel auch eine Gewanderaustellungen die Bundesweit laufen und die _______unser Landsleute praktish kaempfen. Vor allem , die wanderaustellung heisst dass Schicksal der Deutschen in Russland, 1763-1997 und dieser wanderaustellungen zeigt unser Schicksaal, unser schweres Leben in den weiten Siberien, und in Kazackstan und schweren Zeiten unsere Landsleute auch heute noch. Und die quartierelle Arbeit die leuft auch.

Wir haben eine gute verbindung mit Mike Miller, zum Beispiel, aber auch heir in Deutschland haben wir eine Geschriftstellung . Die haben Autoren , wir haben Kuenstler, wir haben auch einen Autorenkreis, der Mahler, Kunstler , der Musiker. Dass heisst wir versuchen auch ueber die Kunst, ueber die Kultur zu zeigen und dass wir nur einfacher ...Bauern waren, Bauern, dass wir auch ein Volk der Musker, der Kuenstler die Autoren waren Und wir geben auch Buecher heraus die ziegen dass auch eine Kultur auf den bereich den Kirchen, die Schulwesens, die reichen Wissenschafften noch Kulture in der Ukraine, auch im Kaukus oder an der Volga eine grosse Kultur hatten. Und dass wollt auch wir zeigen die einheimische Bevoelkerung die da zu beitraeg dass wir hier akceptiert werden als Deutsche unter Deutschen. Und dass unser haubt ziel als Deutsche unter Deutsche akceptiert werden.

Die haben zurzeit eineige Probleme wie ich schon gesagt habe mit die Jugend und wir sind dabei dass wir also eine gestellen da so zu kreigen damit wir auch uns die Probleme befassen. Und fallend die Jugend kommt an nach Deutschland manchmal unvorbereitet und vor allem auch die Sprache bei erwachsene Menschen da faehlt. Aber mann hat den die Sprache uns geraubt Die Sprache wurde am 1938 in Russland verboten . Dann kennet die ganz gut ________des Obersten soll jetzt.... der wurde so sehr von 28 August 1941 ueber die Vertreibung der Volgadeutschen in die weiten Siberien und Kazackstan und da wurden die Leute ja _____ueberlaeden. To be or not to be? by Shakespeare, und die Menschen mussten kaempfen um ihr leben Dass hingt ja nicht um die Sprache und die Sprache dann verloren. Aber ich denke mir dass is nicht Schuld dieser Menschen die hoffnungsvoll na zu Deutschland kommen und deswegen hatt auch die Bundesregierung die Sprachkurse in Russland jetzt auch Ukraine und in Kazachstan die Sprachkurs angeboten um den Leuten die Sprache wieder beizubringen. Aber es its sehr schwerig und trots allem werden wir alles machen damit auch die Leute die Sprache erlernen, die Sprache ihren Grossfaeter und Grossmuetter, die Sprach ihrer Faeter und Muetter dass sie weitergefueret wird. Und wir hoffen when sie auch Dialekt sprechen in Dialekt- es ish auch eine schoene Sprache ,-- und dass verschonert dann die deutsche Sprache ob es Schwaebish ist oder Plattdeutsch oder auch Saxisch.

(From a practical standpoint I am the national needs assessment leader and I am responsible for everything. That includes finances, introduction to social services, housing, information dispenser and so on and above to deal with all the problems of those have who come to Germany. They have a tremendous number of problems and the Landsmannshaft is merely a transitional organization which fights for the basics for our people. There is a steady stream of people with problems who have not been acknowledged but are plagued with other problems having to do with their families and such and here too we try to help. We also have nationwide public information which contends in behalf of our people. Basically the publicity features the fate of the Germans from Russia in the years 1763 - 1997. This information campaign features our fateful story, our difficult experience in Siberia, in Kazakhstan and the burdensome times they are still going through. We also seek to help with finding housing.

We have a very good connection with Mike Miller, for example. Here in Germany we have a writers organization. We have authors, artists, we have a writing circle, painters, artists, and musicians. We experiment in art and culture to prove that we are not just simple farmers; that we indeed were a people who have musicians, artists and writers. We produce books which show that we had a culture as it pertained to the church, in educational matters, were knowledgeable in cultural matters in the Ukraine, in the Caucuses and on the Volga. We want to declare and show this to the locals in order to be accepted as Germans in Germany. Our main goal is to be accepted here as Germans in Germany.

As I stated earlier we currently have a problem with our youth. We are currently looking for some framework by which we can tackle this problem also. From time to time they come to Germany totally unprepared and above all arrive without the proper language skills among adults. But we were robbed of our language. The Russians forbid us to speak German in l938 and after. You know the story how that pressure increased on August 28, 1941 when the exile occurred of the Volga Germans into the distant Siberia and Kazackstan. Here the people were severely oppressed. "To be or not to be!" by Shakespeare.
These people had to struggle for the very lives. Survival did not depend on language and so the language was lost. But it was not the fault of these folks. They come to Germany filled with hope so the German government provides for language courses in Russia as well as in Ukraine and Kazachstan. The courses are advertised to help them relearn the German language. It is very difficult but in spite of the difficulty we are doing everything we can to enable them to relearn the language of their grandfathers and grandmothers, the language of their fathers and mothers -- so that they can progress. And we hope if they speak in a dialect -- for it too is a beautiful language -- it will serve to enhance the German language even though it is Swavian, Low German or Saxon. )

Voice Could we say a little bit about this in English the language that was robbed in Russia?

AW Ja, Ja. Da muss ich schon vorberieten. Its very difficult . (I would have to prepare for that.)

Voice Do the best you can.

AW The language was robbed. The language was robbed.

Voice The language was robbed from the Germans in Russia, had their language taken away from them or robbed by the Soviets.

AW The language from Germans from Russia, the German language was robbed.... 1948 and 1941 with the ________this Oberst ( official) of the Soviets and it was then question, it was a Problem. The Problem to speak German and die, or to speak Russian and live. And in Siberia and Kazackstan was was ... gots Probleme and the Germans from Russia spoke dialect and not the modern German language and it was ...and today is very difficult to speak in the right German language and our people come to Germany and speak dialect. For example, Plattdeutsch (Low German) and the people here don't understand the people and its problem for Germans here and for us the Germans from Russia.

Voice Du hasts gut gemacht. ( You did well.)

AW I haven't practiced.

Voice Get back to the matter why this organization was founded and who paid for it? Government paid? .....

AW It was organized in 1950 in Stuttgart from Karl Stumpff, Superintendent Schluening, Pfarrer Roemich, Doktor Leibrandt , and other members from the Landsmannschaft and the.... it was 1950 and also l997 the fight for our acceptance for our problems, for our people. It was very difficult in 1950 for fifty members of our Landsmannschafft to dass sei mann uns hier anerkennt (To make our people known.)

Voice To make your people known.

AW To make it our people known to speak for our people. Es war damals sehr schwer weil die Leute wurden gesucht Mann hat sie gesucht und nicht wieder erkannt als deutsche ah ah, angeben . (At that time it was difficult because the people were sought. (The goverment) was looking for them and one did not dare to admit one was German.) It was founded for our people and it was about a 100,000 Germans from Russia. And today we are about 2 million Germans from Russia here in the Federal Republic of Germany. And the Federal Republic of Germany and Germany was and is our heimat, our home and wir wollen Deutsch unter Deutsche sein. (We want to be German among Germans.)

We are ..

Voice We wanted to be German..

AW We want to be German under Germans.

Voice Or Germans within Germany.

AW Germans living in Germany. But also Arbeitslosigkeit und die ganznen Probleme here in Deutschland verschaffen auch unsere Leute probleme und deswegen wird mir nicht _____________
Das is auch praktish ein Problem (But also unemployment and the whole of the problems in Germany also impact the problems our people have and because of that one doesn't.......That also is a practical problem. )

Voice Ja, because of many social problems including the whole...... It creates.....

AW And a lot of social problems speak against our acceptance here in Germany .

Voice Such problems as.. Arbeitslosigkeit. (Unemployment.)


AW Wir haben keine genaue zahl. So ..--____vom Deutschen also _________jeder zu arbeiten.________________Die Russland Deutschan, sie nehmen jeder Arbit an. Die sind sehr fleisig und praktish dass stiert auch heir viel leute dass unser Leute nicht zu hause sitzen und ziehen nicht arbeitslosen geld oder sozial _________. Sie wollen arbeiten und sind auch _beliebt____zur arbeiten . Und dass is fur uns sehr wichtig dass sie hier kein social problen werden. in Germany.

(We do not have an exact number. ............... The Russian Germans take on any kind of work. They are very ambitious and practical and a lot of people are impressed that we don't sit at home and draw unemployment insurance or social security. They want to work . It is very important for us that we are not considered a social problem here in Germany.)

Voice So the German Russians are willing to work and want to work and to become part of German society so that they are not a social problem.

Voice Who funds your organization. Wollen sie noch mehr sagan? (Do you want to say more?)

AW Also wir , wie gesagt, wir werden finanziert aus unsern eigen Mitteln. Dass heisst, unser diese 30,000 zalen Mittglieder, zahlen 54 Mark per Jahr . Wir haben auch eineige Mittglieder im Amerika und Kanada die auch die Mittgliedschafft bezahlan. Ich denk die ihr Betrag is nicht so hoch , 54 Mark, und auch Spenden, die kommen uns auch zu gute. Wir bekommen aber keine offiziele Unterstutzung _seitens _______der Bundesregierung. Es geht um Projekte. Der Pries der Projekts kriegen mussen ... nu mussen die Projekte abgerechened werden , sonst haben wir keine Unterstutzung.

(As I stated earlier, we are self-financed. That means our 30,000 members pay 54 Mark per year. We have some members in America and Canada who also pay membership fees. I don't think theirs is quite as high, 54 Mark. And there are voluntary contributions which help us much. We do not get any support from the government. That is, unless there is some project. If we have (some support) the cost of the project must be deducted. Other than that we have no support. )

Voice So you don't get government money. Say that in English. You get everything from your own membership. You pay your own bills and support your own endeavors. Your expenses, or costs are paid by your members you get no government. We get no government funds. Our costs are paid for by our members and then you listed members in Germany and also in American and Canada. You could say our members in Germany, Canada and America help us pay the bills.

AW We pay our....our members in Germany, they are 40 family members pay our bills. And the members in the USA and Canada pay our bills Unterstutzen uns mit Spenden. (Help us with voluntary gifts.) And help us me, wie Spenden?

Voice Help.

AW And help us with money, with books ...

Voice Is this building an area where people come and do research. ?

AW Uh, Uh.

Voice ...and look for information about their families?

AW Our building here is the only building for our members for Germans from Russia and they come from the Federal Republic from states in the USSR. This house is only from our Germans from Russia, for their problems for their information, culture and so on.

Voice Wenn Ich eine Russland von Deutschland waer,....... ich in Stuttgart wohne...zu house komme. Und wann Ich eine grosse Probleme haette, kann Ich zu diese Hause komme.....? (If I were a German from Russia, lived in Stuttgart, had a problem, could I come to this house......? )
....

AW Its right, dass ist richtig, also wie gesagt, dass Tor ist hier offen Das Haus ist offen fuer alle Deutschen hier und..... also die Leute kommen mit allen Familien Problemen op es Genealogy ist, was der Mike Miller macht. Ich hab vorhin schon gesagt was uns am meisten faehlt ist das Problem dass die Leute so viele sociale Probleme haben Op es jetzt, zum Beispiele, ah Klage ist oder Niederspruch . Viel Leute werden hier nicht anerkannt als Deutsche. Op es jetzt Sprache ist oder hohegerufte Gestellung oder sonst was . Und die Leute kommen zu uns ins Haus um die Probleme zu loesen. Und deswegen faehlt uns leider
Zeit fuer Kultur und Wissenshaft. Und wir sind sehr Dankbar, zum Beispiel, unser Amerikanishe Freunden dass sie so viel machen au dem Geneologiewissenshaft. Wie, zum Beispiel, Mike Miller. Wir versuchen auch hier im Hause..... haben hier in Bundes Kulturverein Herr Strohmeyer, sie haben ein Bundes, ............ Herr Fisher, die versuchen auch diese Probleme zu erloesen. Auch unsere Zeitung, Volk auf dem Weg , wird besser. Sehen wir ein gespraech mit Wolfgang Scheuble. Und wir versuchen jetzt alles zu tun dass die Deutsche aus Russland weiter in ihre Uhrheimat Deutchland kommen durfen . Dass is unser haupt Probleme heut zu tage und ich denke mir die Landsmannschafft mit ihre vorsitzenden Herr Alois_________und im Bundesvorstand macht alles um den Leuten zu helfen und dass sie weiter hin ja Deutschen kommen durft.

(That is right, as I said, the door is open. The house is open for all Germans here...and the people come with family problems be it genealogy such as the work Mike Miller does. I have stated earlier what is missing most is being able to respond to the many social problems. for example if they have a complaint or someone puts them down . Many are not recognized as German as it pertains to their speech or work advancement , things like that. And they come to this place to get relief. As a consequence we have not the time for culture and learning. And we are very thankful, for example for our American friends that they are doing so much in genealogical studies and education. For example, Mike Miller. We are doing some experimenting in our institution with a cultural society involving Mr. Strohmeyer, plus a representative of the Government, Mr. Fisher, who are trying to bring some relief to our problems. Also our newspaper, Folks on the Way is getting better. We note there a interview with Wolfgang Scheuble. And we are trying to do everything to enable our people, the Germans from Russia, to progress in their former homeland. That's our main objective these days and I think the Landsmannschaft with President Alois ____who is also in the leadership of the government is doing many things to help the people to become true Germans. )

Voice You said something about Germans coming here to solve their social problems? And their genealogical problems and there is help. And are happy that the Americans and Mike Miller have contributed.

AW The Germans from Russia come to us and we help them. For example Alois ________der Bundes vorstand help our people, the Germans From Russia, they have a lot of social problems and that is our problem. And we are pride of Mike Miller, proud of Mike Miller, our friend in University of North Dakota and he has not the time to do.. to write our problems in culture or genealogy. It is our problem but its very important to do it. Because of men and wives died and our history - verschwindet - . has been lost. Its very, very schade .. sad to say it.

Voice It would help then to gain back their history.

AW Well, but our people have a lot of social problems and our friends our Germans from Russia in North Dakota haven't so problems and our culture problems must we do it with the American friends and the German in Russia and Ukraine. It is very very important to do it.

Voice So all of that research that, for example, the Germans from Russia in North Dakota have done is helpful to the ausiedlers (emigrants) to begin to understand their own history. I can see the value of that.
In your job, what do you find most interesting personally?


AW Die Landsmannschaft is my work and my life. I don't hand....trenned (separate) it. It is for me very important to learn my folk, my people, to understand them , to speak with them, to write about them . To die about them. And I see our problems the problems the Germans of Russia, as my problem, as my heart and I think it is very important to fight for our problems to fight for our acceptance and by the Bundesregierung of Germany and its for me very important to speak with my people to understand their problems, their social problems. And its very difficult for me to speak about our history, about the history in the Ukraine Volga, Kaukauses because our people has....musten viel leiden. (Had to suffer a lot.)

Voice Because they suffered so much.

AW Because they suffered so much.... and its for me a glueck .(happiness) . luck to work here as executive director and I'm very proud of my work and of my people.

Voice One more. Clarify... do you work with both Black Sea and Volga Germans?

AW No I'm a German from the Black Sea.

Voice No, no, arbeiten Sie zusammen mit Volga Deutschen..................

AW I am executive director for all Germans from Russia. And I don't understand the their fight against...I am a German from Russia. I was born in Perm, Ural. Originally and I don't , I was not in Black in Odessa. the most the young people today are coming from Siberia from Kazakstan. And I hope in America and here and in Russia, Ukraine we would zusammen arbeiten. work together and jeder hat seine Geschichte, aber uns einig dass grosse zusammen.

Voice: Each group has their own history but together they share a common history.

AW We have our history - gemeinsamme - eine Geschichte.

Voice One history.

AW The Germans from Russia have one history and we are are,... must to be together.

Voice I have one question W..............

AW The Germans from Russia were born in a land so wie Amerika. It was a very great home and they loved their home, this land, but deportation shaped the character of my people and shaped the life of the Germans from Russia. The Federal Republic of Germany is very small. And we are great people. We would have more land and would work for this land but land hat keine arbeit und braucht keine arbeiter, und auch keine bauer. The Federal Repuiblic of Germany did not need any farmers.

Voice In Germany.

AW Hier in Deutschland. Die Leute ____ihren arbeiten veil sie bauer sind und here urbaesche gemeinschafft brauchte keine arbeiter.

Voice The Germans from Russia are farmers and unfortunately in Germany farmers are not needed.

AW The Germans from Russia work here work here but Germany does need farmers.

Voice Germany does not need.

AW Germany does not need, yes.

Voice Can you say more about the people their psychological........ Russland deutsch... (unclear)

AW The life in the Republics of the Soviet Union was difficult. In Siberia or Kazakstan and my people come to Germany they must see that people here doesn't want to see my people and the people wanted their the offenheit,

Voice The openess.

AW The openness of the German people and they don't speak the German language , they duften nicht.

Voice. They are not accepted.

AW Are not accepted and our people ziehen sich zurueck in ihren heim And our Germans form Russia stayed at home. And it is very difficult to lok sie (Lure them out.)

Voice Get them out in the open.

AW And they schliesen sich ap. ( They lock themselves in.) For allem Baptists or Mennonites , for example and its very difficult to , menschen zu holen raus aus ihrem heim (To get them out of their homes)....................und auch ihre seele, the soul, die die... (And get out their souls.)

Voice the Mind.

AW The mind is abgeschlossen. (Closed)

Voice Shut up, closed up.

AW It is very very to....to. die Menschen offen zu halten. Wissen sie, die menschen geben sich nicht offen. (To keep the people open. You know, the people do not open up.)

Voice ....to bring, to open them up. They are very closed, sie haben angst.

AW: They said, "We are Russians from Germany." In Germany, in Ukraine, for example, there was German faschists , Fritze, and in Germany they are Russians. Als schlussfolge de departzion und die menschen mussen sich _____die bruchen aber zeit. Die wunden kennen heilen mit der Zeit.

Voice The wounds will heal with time but the Germans from Russia need time.

AW The wounds will heal with time and we haven't time. Its the problem.

Voice When did you leave Siberia? How old were you? Wie alt war en Sie?

AW Ja, Ich war damals 35 years, so. And today I am 43.

Voice Do you have anything else?

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